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+--- Thread: Painful but True (/showthread.php?tid=35172)
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RE: Painful but True - dlee2499 - 01-18-2016
I'm not reading everyone's posts, so if people said something like this or says I'm wrong, that's okay. But here's the deal.
We all do this for fun. Nobody gets paid, nobody's life or well-being depends on this. Nobody needs to do this. It's for fun.
If you cheat, get out. Period. Yes, he's gone now, but why should we even recognize anything he did here? I don't think we vacate the championships, but he had a direct influence on his players, so they shouldn't be in our HoF. I probably lost to him in the WS before, I don't remember. But I don't want a title or an apology or anything.
Just get rid of the people that he had a chance to modify and call it a day. We can take his name off of everything, including the championships, but don't put them on anyone else.
RE: Painful but True - gmoney - 01-19-2016
This whole situation is very NCAA-ish to me. I don't think removing names from championships or taking players out of the HOF really changes the fact that those things happened.
I've been told some of the things that Sean did, but as far as I know, none of these things were shown to be applied to the players in the Hall of Fame (if someone can show me otherwise, that's fine).
I'd be more okay with removing his name from the title banners, but not vacating the championships outright unless there is a specific year where something big happened.
At the end of the day, trying to delete him from our history doesn't change it; it's the same stuff the NCAA does with Reggie Bush or the Fab Five - yes, there were violations, but you don't forget people because their name isn't up on a banner.
RE: Painful but True - Peter - 01-19-2016
The distinction that I make from NCAA to FCM is that within the NCAA the advantages gained were solely off the field and really had no on-field impact. The changes that Sean made had a significant advantage that other opponents could not have.
RE: Painful but True - mattynokes - 01-19-2016
(01-19-2016, 02:43 PM)Peter Wrote: The distinction that I make from NCAA to FCM is that within the NCAA the advantages gained were solely off the field and really had no on-field impact. The changes that Sean made had a significant advantage that other opponents could not have.
This.
Plus removing Sean's name or players isn't trying to act like it never happened. It's saying that the accolades were not earned in a moral and ethical way and therefore he should not get credit.
It's why I suggest leaving the team logos up on the blog, but removing Sean's name. In the least, I feel his credit for the championships should be vacated. With the players, I can see the point to removing or keeping them. That personal player's legacy didn't undoubtedly mean another player couldn't make the HOF.
However, his actions directly influenced division titles and playoff results. Many, many teams lost out on potential playoff appearances or even world series victories? Like I stated above, I don't think there's enough concern over his run with the Cubs, so I would keep those titles as-is. He didn't have the factory of players having massively extended careers with the Cubs as he did with the Angels.
RE: Painful but True - 'PR' - 01-19-2016
We should remove his name from the archives one way or another, whether with both LAA and the Cubs or just LAA. The fact that his stats and accolades will go on without any sort of punishment or acknowledgement that they were fraudulent is a catastrophe for this league.
RE: Painful but True - AndyP - 01-19-2016
What do we gain from removal other than questions? Here's the truth:
1) We probably can't prove anything about any of the players without me having multiple different passwords (some of which I'm quite sure I don't have) and trying to find modifications over the years. I don't really care enough to spend the time to even try.
2) Taking names off of banners does nothing. We can't fix what happened, just move on. That's my suggestion - move on. Know that it happened but it's done happening and move on.