Health Upgrades

***AndyP*** · 02-10-2011, 07:10 PM

Health also helps keep things creative and different. We can just play without injuries at this rate.

The only I've always hated is the incredibly low draftee health ratings - but that's on mogul not on this file.

***mattynokes*** · 02-10-2011, 08:04 PM

I'm not looking at this as an injury prevention like a lot of you are. I'm looking at this as a playing time issue. Injuries are surely apart of the game and on average every team should endure at least one big injury (4+ weeks) per season to make it realistic. So if that means turning up the injury frequency or severity +10% then I'd support that. The problem I have is that Mogul will decrease a player's health for injuries, but never increase a player's health when he goes years and years without an injury. It's realistic to think that a player can improve their health status. I'd take a .775 OPS guy that plays 150+ games a year over the .800 guys that only plays 120 games.

'PR' · (This post was last modified: 02-10-2011, 08:10 PM by 'PR'.)

(02-10-2011, 08:04 PM)mattynokes Wrote: I'm not looking at this as an injury prevention like a lot of you are. I'm looking at this as a playing time issue. Injuries are surely apart of the game and on average every team should endure at least one big injury (4+ weeks) per season to make it realistic. So if that means turning up the injury frequency or severity +10% then I'd support that. The problem I have is that Mogul will decrease a player's health for injuries, but never increase a player's health when he goes years and years without an injury. It's realistic to think that a player can improve their health status. I'd take a .775 OPS guy that plays 150+ games a year over the .800 guys that only plays 120 games.

I don't think a player can improve his health status. If your known to be healthy, then your a healthy player. If you get injured, your more likely to get injured again after the injury, which is why I understand that health will decrease after an injury. If a player is staying healthy for years and years, he most likely has a good health rating. I really haven't encountered many sub 70 health rated guys who don't spend at least a month or two on the DL per year in a 3-5 year span.

***mattynokes*** · 02-10-2011, 08:18 PM

(02-10-2011, 08:10 PM)Mstrpr626 Wrote: I don't think a player can improve his health status. If your known to be healthy, then your a healthy player. If you get injured, your more likely to get injured again after the injury, which is why I understand that health will decrease after an injury. If a player is staying healthy for years and years, he most likely has a good health rating. I really haven't encountered many sub 70 health rated guys who don't spend at least a month or two on the DL per year in a 3-5 year span.

An example of someone improving their health is Chipper Jones. During Spring Training of '94 he tore his ACL and missed the entire season. He then came back to never land on the DL from 1995 through 2003 with 8 consecutive years of 150+ games played. According to Mogul that ACL injury would probably have made him take a huge health hit and never be able to regain it.

You can prevent injuries by stretching or doing flexibility training or by something as simple as eating right. I've read many stories of players admitting to being pretty lax on their diet or workout regiment and then the light comes on and "boom", they feel better and need less days off as a result of being healthier.

'PR' · 02-10-2011, 08:38 PM

(02-10-2011, 08:18 PM)mattynokes Wrote:
(02-10-2011, 08:10 PM)Mstrpr626 Wrote: I don't think a player can improve his health status. If your known to be healthy, then your a healthy player. If you get injured, your more likely to get injured again after the injury, which is why I understand that health will decrease after an injury. If a player is staying healthy for years and years, he most likely has a good health rating. I really haven't encountered many sub 70 health rated guys who don't spend at least a month or two on the DL per year in a 3-5 year span.

An example of someone improving their health is Chipper Jones. During Spring Training of '94 he tore his ACL and missed the entire season. He then came back to never land on the DL from 1995 through 2003 with 8 consecutive years of 150+ games played. According to Mogul that ACL injury would probably have made him take a huge health hit and never be able to regain it.

You can prevent injuries by stretching or doing flexibility training or by something as simple as eating right. I've read many stories of players admitting to being pretty lax on their diet or workout regiment and then the light comes on and "boom", they feel better and need less days off as a result of being healthier.

While what you say has truth, consider this: All players, healthy or injury prone, have gone through some sort of injury. Even the players with good health ratings will have their time on the DL. So even thought Chipper had a torn ACL, that doesn't mean he was an unhealthy player before hand, that just means he encountered a set back. Because he was a healthy player, he returned to All-Star form. The point I'm trying to make is, unhealthy players do not improve their health in about 90% of the case. Yea they may stay off the DL longer than last time, but that doesn't mean their chance of getting injured has decreased. If the Chipper incident was a case inside Mogul, he probably would have had like an 85-90 health rating. Players with good health normally don't decline because of health. Healthy players encounter big injuries too, it's not like they will never have some sort of long term DL stint.

Scott · (This post was last modified: 02-10-2011, 10:40 PM by Scott.)

Why can't we find a happy medium?

10M to send a player
random number drawn 1-5
1-4 = +5
5 = -3

***mattynokes*** · 02-11-2011, 02:08 AM

I don't think it should cost as much as winterball. And I don't think it should be left to chance. The effect isn't as great as a winterball can be. If it's left to chance then I wouldn't see anyone risking an 80+ health guy and I think it would stop a lot of 60s health guys from entering as it's just a huge risk. Overall I don't see it being used if it's for chance.

1. $5M = 3 Health Points
2. Anyone with 75+ Health cannot be entered
3. Anyone with 73 or 74 Health will still have to pay the full $5M to get to 75 Health

This way you can make an elite skilled player into a 160+ game player nor could you feel safe of injury. At 75 Health you're still looking at a guy who'll get hurt every once in awhile and will likely average about 140-145 games.

dejota · (This post was last modified: 02-11-2011, 02:53 AM by dejota.)

I still see no benefit to doing this. FWIW, a lot the arguments for allowing GMs to buy health seems to infer that health has a direct correlation to the number of days a player is healthy. That's not the case. A lower health player is more likely to get injured and generally won't be able to handle as many injuries before turning to junk but that's where the health impact ends. The severity, length and impact on his overall/health/etc. is no different than his 90s health counter part.

And in the department of things that may only interest me: have those who wanted equalized spending AND support being able to buy health considered those two ideas don't agree with each other?

terrythek · 02-11-2011, 05:10 AM

i think the severity of injuries and how many injuries is really good now, i say why mess with something when there are no problems, I think finally the injuries and severity and amount of realistic and it has taken a while. And if lets say the mets spend 5 mill on jose reyes to try to make him more healthy (realistic example) there is also a risk or there is a chance that is has no effect. Money should not buy certainty, we already kind of play God with the draftees injury ratings (which has to be done b/c mogul sucks in that regard) no reason to also do this with players already in the league. just my 2 cents here and DJ I am staying consistent, i wanted equalized medical and I don't want to buy health :)

***mattynokes*** · (This post was last modified: 02-12-2011, 02:45 PM by mattynokes.)

Again, I'm not looking at this as injury prevention. It's NOT an issue of injury frequency/severity. The issue I have is playing time. Health isn't just the player's ability to fight of injury, it also affects the number of days off he'll need in the season. If no injuries occur you can get more games out of a 90 health guy than a 70 health guy. But I'm gonna change up my angle on this.

Suggested Rules...

1. On draft day you can increase a position player's heath up to 5 points
2. $7.5M = 5 Health Points (or $1.5M = 1 Health Points)
3. Anyone with 67+ Health cannot be entered
4. Anyone who doesn't need the full 5 points, can have the number they need to get to 67 Health on a pro-rated cost (i.e. 3 Health Points would cost $4.5M)

The reason why I eliminated pitchers from the suggestion is because their playing time is mostly based off of their Endurance rating. No matter a starting pitcher's health rating as long as he's rested every five days (and assuming healthy) he'll reach the full season of 32 starts. I've found the same to be especially true with RPs. I remember in a league had Takashi Saito for 3 years. He started out with low 60s health and then each season after he regressed his health dropped into the 50s. Even with a poor health rating he still managed to appear in a full season of games for his role in the bullpen.

For position players playing time is related highly to their health rating. Average health (75) should get the player around 145 games in a season. Whereas real good health (90) should get the player a consistent 160+ games per season. Again, this is saying the player doesn't get injured.