Farm System Equality!!!

'PR' · 10-07-2010, 08:30 AM

The idea of Caps seems nice to me (to no ones surprise). My only concern is the fact bigger Markets will have a thicker wad of moola to spend on FA's and Resignings if we implement it. As Mike said, Budgets would need to be controlled somehow too, and that might be a problem with some people. I like the system but it comes with questions.

***AndyP*** · 10-07-2010, 12:21 PM

If we're shifting concern to the cash problem - I think that does need to be seriously looked at. The cash thing allows for huge IFA bids as well, which eliminates smaller teams from being competitive also.

Teams like the Red Sox and Yankees will always have a competitive advantage, the key is finding the most realistic advantage.

think we have to be careful that we don't keep increasing the farm cap budget to the point taht teams can't max out on it. I can't stress enough how utterly stupid the farm spending is in Mogul and how dramatically it can affect player outcomes. Small markets teams will have absolutely zero chance of being competitive if large market teams can double them in farm spending. Mogul's magic pixie dust should be much more level.

'PR' · (This post was last modified: 10-07-2010, 02:46 PM by 'PR'.)

Yea Andy has a point. You know this also brings up the subject, could it be possible in anyway to have the league, like the admins or someone appointed to do the job, control the payroll budget based on attendance and expenses or something. I don't know how it would work honestly. I don't know how you would come up with the amount that every team should have but I'm just wondering if it's possible. IDK how good or effective it will be either, but it's a thought to stimulate the, as Andy calls it, magic pixie dust flying around.

dejota · 10-07-2010, 02:50 PM

Guys this thread acts like FCM has some of the worst parity in the history of Sim baseball...I'd argue we have more than most. So while I love the go-get 'em attitude in this league, I think we're being very premature in sounding the alarm on big market teams having too much of a competitive advantage.

I mean BOS, through very few faults of their own, has practically been a perennial cellar dweller. NYY has had consistent success, but mostly through the draft and trade and not by just throwing his money around. In the NL the Dodgers, Phillies and Mets come to mind as "major market" teams yet FLA, with their 80M budget including farm/medical spending, has been right there despite having dealt with these same issues.

The smallest market teams are some of our best: Mil, Fla, TB, KC, Cle have fielded some of the most competitive teams we have. I'm not saying this to discourage suggestions and as a league I definitely think we need to keep our eyes on it, but at this point I honestly don't think FCM history warrants any rule changes at this juncture.

ezpkns34 · 10-07-2010, 02:54 PM

Some of the biggest free agent contracts that come to my mind:
Dan Haren - Washington
Rickie Weeks - Minnesota
Johan Santana - Oakland
DiceK - Arizona
Halladay - NYM
Youkilis - NYY
Rafeal Soriano - Cleveland

That list isn't exactly dominated by the large market teams

erick1174 · (This post was last modified: 10-07-2010, 05:12 PM by erick1174.)

(10-07-2010, 12:03 AM)hokeyrules Wrote: Caps yes, but not increasing Caps.

But on another note yanks is right.

And you won the WS and now your paying the price? Whose fault is that?

What??? LOL. Ridiculous. Where did I say it was anyones fault?? Not that I am saying I am even paying the price now. I simply brought up the point of being realistic. Sure, it hasnt caused problems yet, but why not look into the future and make it so that there is never a problem in the first place??

There is a reason most leagues have gone to the equalized budgets. Im not saying this league should be a follower, but why not learn from mistakes of other leagues in the past as well. Most leagues nowadays have.

And to dejota, I appreciate you looking into this and by no means do I think just because our idea here isnt implemented, that you havent done your due diligence as an admin. I just wanted to bring up my opinion, and that is it.

(10-07-2010, 12:21 PM)AndyP Wrote: If we're shifting concern to the cash problem - I think that does need to be seriously looked at. The cash thing allows for huge IFA bids as well, which eliminates smaller teams from being competitive also.

Teams like the Red Sox and Yankees will always have a competitive advantage, the key is finding the most realistic advantage.

think we have to be careful that we don't keep increasing the farm cap budget to the point taht teams can't max out on it. I can't stress enough how utterly stupid the farm spending is in Mogul and how dramatically it can affect player outcomes. Small markets teams will have absolutely zero chance of being competitive if large market teams can double them in farm spending. Mogul's magic pixie dust should be much more level.

Exactly. Obviously, this issue isnt one that would have affected the league yet, so whether small market teams have been successful or not is beside the point. The problem of Farm Spending inequality would only surface years down the road when only the large market teams have all of the top notch homegrown talent.

(10-07-2010, 02:54 PM)ezpkns34 Wrote: Some of the biggest free agent contracts that come to my mind:
Dan Haren - Washington
Rickie Weeks - Minnesota
Johan Santana - Oakland
DiceK - Arizona
Halladay - NYM
Youkilis - NYY
Rafeal Soriano - Cleveland

That list isn't exactly dominated by the large market teams

Yes, thank your for proving part of my point. Not one of these mid to smaller market teams that you have listed have had much success since making these big purchases. My point wasnt that teams couldnt spend on FAs, my point is that you cant be successful by doing both Spending big amounts on your MLB club while also having any success developing talent in the minors. The large market teams can do that, why not make it like Real Life and at least allow the small market teams to develop their talent just like the big market teams.

Again, I am not trying to fight for what I think is fair. I am pointing out that we should try to make the league more like real life when it is feasible.

When you have unequal farm spending, together with having the Agent System which ask for big time contracts, as well as the obvious disparity in fan support and revenue..... What doesnt fit there??? The Agent System is making the league more like real life. Big advantage to Big Market teams. The Disparity in Revenue and Payroll is making the league more like real life, big advantage to Big Market teams. Which one is not like real life??? The disparity in being able to afford a good development system in the minors.

***AndyP*** · 10-07-2010, 07:48 PM

I like what we do now, I think we're fine. I'm a bit concerned about cash surpluses, but as long as we're aware that the farm spending is utter, complete bullshit and we have a system to contain it - I'm happy.

terrythek · 10-08-2010, 04:52 AM

haha I wish I had a cash surplus problem. I dunno I thought I would throw this out there kind of b/c I don
't have much cash, haven't been winning and I can't spend anything really for my farm until my cash goes up a little. I guess as someone who can't spend money in my farm and max out like a lot of the teams do it kind of would make sense for me to sell my draft picks every year to try to get that cash flowing a little bit which makes the teams who buy them who can spend max on their farm not only max what talent they do have in their farm but also get a lot of talent for their farm and stockpile it. I am having fun with this league though and there are lots of people that care about issues like these that helps make it even better. I would think that equalizing something like farm would make looking at prospects more of a who has a better eye for talent b/c every manager would be on a level playing field money wise. I really don't have a suggestion I just want you guys to know from a perspective from a guy with little cash

erick1174 · 10-08-2010, 01:23 PM

Good point. Thats exactly what you would have to do, is selling your draft picks because you know you cant develop them properly due to not being able to spend money on your Farm to compete. Sell high, because you know those players wont develop properly.

dejota · 10-08-2010, 03:45 PM

I see the point but I think it's a bit fatalistic. Nobody made you guys pay your top guys, the decision I'm making as a GM is being careful of who I extend and basing my "budget" after my farm/medical spending so I can replenish as I go. HOU isn't exactly big market is it?