Injury Recoup

[Cdawg]

In...at least basketball(and roster/injury exempts in football) Team get a certain percentage of what the player makes BACK if he is injured for a certain length of time. While we don't next a real roster exempt in baseball since it's pretty limitless(and the DL) I think a proposal to make some of the cash back is relevant.

Here is a small sample of guidelines or rules.

1. Has to be injured for the majority, if not all of the season.
2. Has to be making a major ML contract(worth millions)
3. Input an "injury arbitrator" who will more or less give his opinion and ruling on if an injured player should be recouped.(it will be like off season resigning/arby where a team asks the IA if he can recoup X amount of money)


An example

Texas Zach Townes has been injured since March 9th. His injury will keep him out of the rest of the season but if a Playoff run is made he'll make it back.

Texas GM goes to Injury arbitration and says "He's making 2.5M, missed the entire season.. I want 80% recoup." Injury arbitrator says "I'll let you have him for 70%(1.75M)"

Toronto's Bosworth is out since April 15th(Lets lower his injury so that he comes back day 1 of the playoffs)

Toronto's GM goes to IA and says "Bosworth is gone for 5 months. He's making 19M I want 15 back."
IA Says "No, You can have 10 back OR 12 back IF he is on/off the playoff roster."

It's a definite work in process but we have all complained of injures(Milwaukee complains every year) So this at least eases the lose of a player AND in RL I'm assuming Detroit is going to get some money back b/c of losing Victor Martinez

[GoIrish]

Teams get money back if a player is injured? Teams only get money back in other sports on non-guaranteed contracts. Take football for example. Guy signs a 5 year 20M contract with a 7M signing bonus. The only money in that contract that is a guarantee is the signing bonus, after year 1 the team can cut that player and not owe him the remainder. Even in football, if you cut the guy because of an injury, that player could still be owed money, hence why teams wait till players are medically cleared to cut them. In Basketball and Baseball, the contracts are guaranteed and don't have that luxury.

[mike]

This will just bring money into the game when there is already way to much. I also think the process would be quite tedious. An injury is an injury deal with it. Have some depth, which with our file you should defently be able to find some on the cheap. Another problem is that, its hard enough to get agents to respond, the only way I see this even remotley working is if we get one of the people who already have a lot on their plate to be the arbitor.

[AndyP]

Teams get money back if a player is injured? Teams only get money back in other sports on non-guaranteed contracts. Take football for example. Guy signs a 5 year 20M contract with a 7M signing bonus. The only money in that contract that is a guarantee is the signing bonus, after year 1 the team can cut that player and not owe him the remainder. Even in football, if you cut the guy because of an injury, that player could still be owed money, hence why teams wait till players are medically cleared to cut them. In Basketball and Baseball, the contracts are guaranteed and don't have that luxury.

That's not true. Teams have insurance policies on most major contracts they sign. For example, when Joe Nathan blew out his arm for the Twins in ST two years ago they had insurance on his contract in the event that he had such an injury.

It didn't pay off the entire injury, but it paid a large percentage of it. This is from a Jason Stark article about it:

Twin peeks: We've heard from two league sources that the Twins have an insurance policy on Nathan's contract that figures to reimburse them a "significant" chunk of the $11.25 million their closer has coming this season. So that's more than enough money to allow them to chase a closer at the trading deadline if they think they need one.

So what CDawg is suggesting is realistic, but teams would have to pay for the insurance.

[Cdawg]

Teams get money back if a player is injured? Teams only get money back in other sports on non-guaranteed contracts. Take football for example. Guy signs a 5 year 20M contract with a 7M signing bonus. The only money in that contract that is a guarantee is the signing bonus, after year 1 the team can cut that player and not owe him the remainder. Even in football, if you cut the guy because of an injury, that player could still be owed money, hence why teams wait till players are medically cleared to cut them. In Basketball and Baseball, the contracts are guaranteed and don't have that luxury.

That's not true. Teams have insurance policies on most major contracts they sign. For example, when Joe Nathan blew out his arm for the Twins in ST two years ago they had insurance on his contract in the event that he had such an injury.

It didn't pay off the entire injury, but it paid a large percentage of it. This is from a Jason Stark article about it:

Twin peeks: We've heard from two league sources that the Twins have an insurance policy on Nathan's contract that figures to reimburse them a "significant" chunk of the $11.25 million their closer has coming this season. So that's more than enough money to allow them to chase a closer at the trading deadline if they think they need one.

So what CDawg is suggesting is realistic, but teams would have to pay for the insurance.

Rockets got back most of Yao Ming's last injury contract. he was earning something like 17M and they got back 11M of it. and at Noon I saw a tweet from Buster Olney that Tigers were gonna try to get 75% of Victor Martinez's contract. In football I believe they get what is called a roster exempt or injury exempt where if it's a Major injury(take Brady in 2005? I think, or Peyton this season) Where they can take that player off the roster and not have it count towards their luxery tax.(not really sure how it works b/c peyton was making like 15M but I know I heard it last season where someone was getting like 2M back b/c of an injury).
The time it takes is negligible. It takes 5 seconds for a team to post for it(it can be done any time during the season b/c we can all see how long the player is going to be out for) AND it takes 10 minutes total if that for the injury arbitrator to open up the team file, look at his salary, determine his injury and if handing back money is worth it.
That's why there is a conscious person deciding what is being given back, b/c if we just use a formula like in FA Comp, then there very well could be too much being handed out.

[GoIrish]

Well, if you want to do insurance, then everyone is going to have to pay a premium for the insurance. Then we will have to underwrite the risks and calculate the premium for the risk. That is a different issue than the guarantee of a contract. I don't think this is something feasible to put together.

[mattynokes]

This is very feasible and just takes a good format of rules and telling how the procedure plays out. I would suggest something straight forward that leaves no room for subjection.
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*NOTE* There are 187 days in the FCM Regular Season Calendar

1. Teams can purchase an insurance premium during the off-season.
--- a. The player must be signed to a multi-year contract with a salary of $1M+.
--- b. The player cannot be currently injured.
2. A player's injury must effect the regular season, as the player is not being paid in the playoffs, off-season, or spring training.
3. Teams must specific the amount of years they wish to cover and can choose between 4 insurance options:
--- a. Premium of 5% of contact (options excluded) for 25% insurance reimbursement
--- b. Premium of 10% of contract (options excluded) for 50% insurance reimbursement
--- c. Premium of 15% of contract (options excluded) for 75% insurance reimbursement
--- d. Premium of 20% of contract (options excluded) for 100% insurance reimbursement
4. A player has to be injured for at least 2 weeks (vitals tab) in order to get the prorated portion of the contract reimbursed.
5. Per the vitals tab, a "week" is valuable for reimbursement of 7 days. A "month" is valuable for reimbursement of 30 days. Different injuries cannot be added together for reimbursement eligibility.
--- i.e. A player injured for 23 days would show up as being injured for 3 weeks in the vitals tab. He would be eligible for reimbursement of 21.
6. Reimbursement figures will be rounded to the nearest thousand dollar amount.
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The reason I feel we should use roundabout figures for weeks and months is so we don't have to do a lot of research to figure out exactly how many days a player was injured. This way the file could be viewed at any time and anyone would know exactly how much reimbursement the team is eligible for.

So, here's two examples with my Rockies.

Aaron Brand: (For example sakes, we'll say he signed a $5M/2 Year contract in the off-season)

A. I purchase a 5% insurance premium in the off-season for the duration of the contract, which costs me $500K
($10M x 5% = $500K) - Premium Payment
B. Brand was injured for 3 months, which is eligible for 90 days
(90 days / 187 FCM days x $5M = $2.406M) - Salary Earned While Injured
($2.406 x .25 = $602K) - Reimbursment

I bought the 5% premium which gives me 25% reimbursement. His injury was eligible for 90 days, nearly half of the FCM 187 day season. I would come out ahead $102K while still having him insured for the remainder of the current season and the next season as well.

Gabriel Gamora ($13M/2 contract)

A. I purchase a 10% insurance premium for the entire duration of the contract, which costs me $2.6M
($26M x .1 = $2.6M)
B. Gamora was injured for 3 weeks, 9 days, and 2 two days -- However only the 3 week injury would be eligible.
(21 days / 187 FCM days x $13M = $1.460M)
($1.460M x .5 = $730K) - Reimbursement

Since Gamora has an option I cannot purchase insurance on it until the option is picked up. Only the 3 week injury is eligible for reimbursement, so I would be getting $730K back and have the insurance for next season as well.

[AndyP]

I've been demolished as bad this year as anyone has in the history of this league....but I'm not sure I want this. It's one more thing for admins to keep track of and one more complication to work with. Injuries are a part of the game and you just hvae to roll with them.

[Cdawg]

I've been demolished as bad this year as anyone has in the history of this league....but I'm not sure I want this. It's one more thing for admins to keep track of and one more complication to work with. Injuries are a part of the game and you just hvae to roll with them.

Except no one is trying to eliminate them, change the settings, or do anything drastic.

it is 1 more thing but w/ so much shit out there, if you find someone who isn't an admin to keep track of it(which AGAIN has to be CLAIMED in order to work, instead of just handing out) then it's extremely feasible.

1. Teams can purchase an insurance premium during the off-season.
--- a. The player must be signed to a multi-year contract with a salary of $4M+.
--- b. The player cannot be currently injured.
2. A player's injury must effect the regular season, as the player is not being paid in the playoffs, off-season, or spring training.
3. Teams must specific the amount of years they wish to cover and can choose between 3 insurance options:
--- a. Premium of 5% of contact (options excluded) for 25% insurance reimbursement
--- b. Premium of 10% of contract (options excluded) for 50% insurance reimbursement
--- c. Premium of 15% of contract (options excluded) for 75% insurance reimbursement
4. A player has to be injured for at least 2 months (vitals tab) in order to get the prorated portion of the contract reimbursed.
5. Per the vitals tab, a "week" is valuable for reimbursement of 7 days. A "month" is valuable for reimbursement of 30 days. Different injuries cannot be added together for reimbursement eligibility.
--- i.e. A player injured for 23 days would show up as being injured for 3 weeks in the vitals tab. He would be eligible for reimbursement of 21.
6. Reimbursement figures will be rounded to the nearest thousand dollar amount.

It's hardly a thing since when FA is going on Teams can just say "Insurance plan B etc" and include the amount of cash floating around. Or you can do it just like resigning or at the time... IFA leave a thread open from the start of the off season until the moment sim 1 starts to get in Insurance offers. After that if you are injured you get jack.

And consider this. 50% of the top 10 DP's this season had a health of 69 or under and all but 1 had a health of 75 and under... To me those guys are prime for constant injuries


I can see it working in a discussion that doesn't happen over night.

[mattynokes]

I've been demolished as bad this year as anyone has in the history of this league....but I'm not sure I want this. It's one more thing for admins to keep track of and one more complication to work with. Injuries are a part of the game and you just hvae to roll with them.

In a league where I feel it promotes teams to get rid of older players because of potential random drop or injury problems this could be a way to extend player's careers. This happens in MLB too, but the rate at which players fall off is much greater in FCM.

I don't see this being used to death. I could see it being like winterball where; some use it religiously, some use it sporadically, and some rarely or never use it. It's also a way to get the cash flow going in the league. There will be many instances where a player wouldn't be hurt enough to match the premium purchased. So while some teams get their investment back, others will have paid all this money for nothing which is good for those hoarding cash.

I'd be willing to create a calculator for this using Excel and it would be an easy plug 'n chug process.