Cin/TB

***jps93*** · 08-02-2010, 02:08 AM

:CIN: receives:

SS Adam Mertens 74/90
SP Jason McEachern 77/85
3B Chris Garufi 64/88
SP Alex Colome 86
LF Jon Gaston 82
OF Jerrad Seabird 81/84

:TBR: receives:

SP Aroldis Chapman 96

I got too much to pass up. I have ready pitchers and more farm talent now.

EPIC xX Fate Xx · 08-02-2010, 02:10 AM

I agree. I give up a lot. And Mertens and Garufi are gonna be good. But i lose only 2 starts in Gaston and Colome, and Chapman covers Colomes spot, and now I have a rotation of 4 guys with a 88 or higher. SICK!

dejota · (This post was last modified: 08-02-2010, 03:05 PM by dejota.)

Veto, too many nonspects for a team rebuilding. Not trying to tell you how to run your team, but I often analyze deals as if I were the next GM and my first thought would be why didn't we get youth for Chapman.

I'm going to extend this veto to the other two deals, at least temporarily, because you weren't even approved 2 hours before making huge decisions. It would be irresponsible and unfair to previous decisions to pass this trades when they weren't even shopped to 25 of the 30 GMs. Again I'm not telling you how to run your team and other mods can still override me, but I would've built a deal for him around Steele or Barr along with youth or a few ML pieces if you needed. Point is there's potentially better deals out there and if there's not I'm certainly open to changing my mind, but for the time being shop Votto and Chapman as they instantly become the biggest names available. Check out STL return for Pujols/Carp and I think you'll agree somebody would give you more youth than this.

terrythek · 08-02-2010, 03:49 PM

I agree, I know for a fact that cin could have gotten a much better return with all of the other deals out there for an ace and a hitter as good as votto, at least shop these guys a little bit, and with specs being all over the place in this league I would need to see a much better trade for chapman, I veto as well until at least these guys are shopped a bit longer

EPIC xX Fate Xx · 08-02-2010, 04:01 PM

Why does it matter if he shops them or not? He found a deal he likes and makes sense to him. And he pulled the trigger. I was in the running for Votto before Detroit snatched him from me. Basiclly what you guys are doing is telling him how to run his team. You say hes getting to many "non spects" thats his choice. This deal makes sense for him and for what hes looking to do. It shouldnt be vetoed cause you dont agree with his choice of moving those guys. Thats straight bullshit.

***jps93*** · (This post was last modified: 08-02-2010, 04:30 PM by jps93.)

If you veto because the deal is bad, that's fine. But if you veto because you don't like how I'm running my team, I'm not sure that's right. i saw a deal and I took it. I'm well aware that by Sunday there is no more trading. i needed to set some things straight before that happens. Shedding cap and upgrading my farm is important to me. I've had plenty of deals vetoed before. That's not a problem to me. I've never had one vetoed for this though...

terrythek · 08-02-2010, 04:37 PM

as a trade mod you need to look at what is good for the league and in this case what is good for the league is for a brand new GM to shop his top 2 players. And what is he trying to do? I would like to hear more from cinci and what his plans are with these moves. We are not trying to run his team so please don't say things like that, unless there is a trend in recent vetoes.

***jps93*** · 08-02-2010, 04:53 PM

(08-02-2010, 04:37 PM)terrythek Wrote: as a trade mod you need to look at what is good for the league and in this case what is good for the league is for a brand new GM to shop his top 2 players. And what is he trying to do? I would like to hear more from cinci and what his plans are with these moves. We are not trying to run his team so please don't say things like that, unless there is a trend in recent vetoes.

fair enough

the votto trade is way more important. I save about 20M in cap my making that deal and more importantly I get rid of howard. I get spects fro votto too. I'd like to raise a farm and grow my won talent. I do recognize that chapman can be part of that talent, and at this point he'll be back on my squad and WILL be part of that young talent. But I'm all about cutting cap and growing my own.

If you understand, then can you at least let the votto trade go through and veto the chapman one? I see where you're coming from with chapman but the votto deal is legit.

If you need anymore info please let me know. I'm not about to piss off everyone in a league i just joined. I'm happy to be here and will give you any info you need as to which direction I'm heading.

***AndyP*** · 08-02-2010, 05:56 PM

I found this to be the most passable of the three in my opinion. Which should tell you how bad I think the other two are.

I'm just not seeing a depth of inspection going on in these trades. If you look at all three combined there is a hugely talented bat and a hugely talented ace leaving with returns that could best be described as paltry.

There needs to be some legit talent moving for these guys. Joey Votto doesn't need to be used to make a salary dump, Aroldis Chapman needs to move for at least one super talented prospect, and Lind shouldn't go for AAA fodder. One of these deals, by themselves, may not be reason to question - but all three combined throw up huge red flags to me.

dejota · (This post was last modified: 08-02-2010, 06:17 PM by dejota.)

I hope nobody's getting pissed. I'm certainly not.

And all we can do is remain open to having my mind changed when we veto. And I think every mod is open to solutions but we don't feel like they should be limited to just the teams involved currently since a major reason we're vetoing is they weren't shopped. To be blunt, if you really felt like this is such a fair deal for CIN you would've addressed the deal, not just underlying general principles we've debated in-depth previously.

We've spent a lot of time discussing the modding situation for FCM and how the mods are going to approach it. We've specifically chosen mods for their varying POV on what's passable and what's not passable. We've clearly demonstrated not shopping a player is cause for veto. Sometimes we end up approving the deal or a similar one after some reflection other times it's been permanently vetoed, but the fact it's gone both ways just reiterates the mod's goal of fairness, in general.

I understand how we could come across poorly and I tried to qualify that in my initial response. I apologize for not doing a good enough job and I hope this is a more satisfactory explanation but it's in the best interest of the league to go into a holding pattern for a day or two as opposed to irrevocably approving a deal that leaves CIN w/out their best ML pieces for a rebuild.