Negative cash should equal negative results

Cdawg · 05-20-2011, 11:45 PM

(05-20-2011, 08:51 PM)rockybull Wrote:
(05-20-2011, 07:22 PM)GoIrish Wrote:
(05-20-2011, 06:24 PM)rockybull Wrote:
(05-20-2011, 05:57 PM)GoIrish Wrote: Peter, we are talking about something that will not just be for HB but for the league has a whole. DJ brought up a tremendous idea of allowing teams in the red or teams that are over budget 1 free release. This would be a get out of jail free card for some teams. For teams that do not need the get out of jail free card, they would be given a free WB slot or cash buyout (5M).

We need to find a way to fix this mess but I also think that we need to figure a way to monitor some of this in the future as well. I think teams in the red should submit some sort of plan of how they will get out of the red to the league. That way we know they are active rather than sitting on their hands and letting the problem escalate to a much worse situation.

I offered to buy one of HB specs, well before he was even in the red, I could have sent him 10 mil or so, and I told him get back to me, he never did, he never cared. I'm sorry but that is ridiculous to allow him or others to "get out of jail free card." Outahere allows it, but ONLY for new GM's to have ONE when they take over a new team. But they don't for a GM, while they get in a mess of their own. I agree big time with Peter on this one. Teams need to take responsibility and know how not to be 24 mil in the damn red, that is atrocious. I am not for this AT ALL. This team will be in the clear when you don't let them sign any FA except for league min, and let all their FA's be released. They will during the year, trade guys for cash and get out of the damn red themselves. Make THEM get out of the red themselves, don't hold their damn hand and help them. They got themselves in this mess, let them get out by themselves too or find a responsible GM that will.

Rocky, I can understand where you are coming from. I do agree that a lot of this situation falls on the shoulders of the individuals themselves. From my perspective, I understand that people make mistakes and I don't mind finding ways to help others out, after all this is just a game.

your right, this is just a game, which I like for. I understand you wanna help them out, but it just isn't fair for others that have payed attention to their budgets and know what to do. There is no excuse for HB not to at least attempt to get back to me about me buying one of his specs, he never attempted too, and that was before he got in the red, I even told him dude you gonna be getting in the red soon, he just acted like he didn't care. That is just my take on this. He will get out of the red soon enough, if it hurts him in offseason, and he has to trade guys, then so be it. I ask that we let HB get out of the red himself, cause it is manageable even if he is 30 mil in red at end of season.

I mentioned this to him well before he was in the red and got the same reaction. He seemed more worried about being atop the AL W and wins than having a stable franchise. Or that he didn't need to worry about it.

rockybull · 05-21-2011, 12:18 AM

(05-20-2011, 11:45 PM)Cdawg Wrote:
(05-20-2011, 08:51 PM)rockybull Wrote:
(05-20-2011, 07:22 PM)GoIrish Wrote:
(05-20-2011, 06:24 PM)rockybull Wrote:
(05-20-2011, 05:57 PM)GoIrish Wrote: Peter, we are talking about something that will not just be for HB but for the league has a whole. DJ brought up a tremendous idea of allowing teams in the red or teams that are over budget 1 free release. This would be a get out of jail free card for some teams. For teams that do not need the get out of jail free card, they would be given a free WB slot or cash buyout (5M).

We need to find a way to fix this mess but I also think that we need to figure a way to monitor some of this in the future as well. I think teams in the red should submit some sort of plan of how they will get out of the red to the league. That way we know they are active rather than sitting on their hands and letting the problem escalate to a much worse situation.

I offered to buy one of HB specs, well before he was even in the red, I could have sent him 10 mil or so, and I told him get back to me, he never did, he never cared. I'm sorry but that is ridiculous to allow him or others to "get out of jail free card." Outahere allows it, but ONLY for new GM's to have ONE when they take over a new team. But they don't for a GM, while they get in a mess of their own. I agree big time with Peter on this one. Teams need to take responsibility and know how not to be 24 mil in the damn red, that is atrocious. I am not for this AT ALL. This team will be in the clear when you don't let them sign any FA except for league min, and let all their FA's be released. They will during the year, trade guys for cash and get out of the damn red themselves. Make THEM get out of the red themselves, don't hold their damn hand and help them. They got themselves in this mess, let them get out by themselves too or find a responsible GM that will.

Rocky, I can understand where you are coming from. I do agree that a lot of this situation falls on the shoulders of the individuals themselves. From my perspective, I understand that people make mistakes and I don't mind finding ways to help others out, after all this is just a game.

your right, this is just a game, which I like for. I understand you wanna help them out, but it just isn't fair for others that have payed attention to their budgets and know what to do. There is no excuse for HB not to at least attempt to get back to me about me buying one of his specs, he never attempted too, and that was before he got in the red, I even told him dude you gonna be getting in the red soon, he just acted like he didn't care. That is just my take on this. He will get out of the red soon enough, if it hurts him in offseason, and he has to trade guys, then so be it. I ask that we let HB get out of the red himself, cause it is manageable even if he is 30 mil in red at end of season.

I mentioned this to him well before he was in the red and got the same reaction. He seemed more worried about being atop the AL W and wins than having a stable franchise. Or that he didn't need to worry about it.

Well, we can clearly see that he had nothing to worry about, since the league will bail him out, the dude is smart, maybe I should do same thing when I start getting good, I think I will. I will just be 30+ mil over budget and wait to get bailed out if I get in the red, nice plan.

***AndyP*** · 05-21-2011, 12:28 AM

I don't like bailouts - whether that be governments or online mogul leagues. There has to be a price or it condones irresponsibility.

HB should be forced to put some players on the block for combination cash heavy deals with some prospects added until the budget is well in check. More than likely these deals will hurt Seattle's talent but it will free cash and budget room. That is a fair price - Seattle doesn't walk away with nothing but they also don't walk away scot free.

Jordan · 05-21-2011, 12:47 AM

(05-21-2011, 12:28 AM)AndyP Wrote: I don't like bailouts - whether that be governments or online mogul leagues. There has to be a price or it condones irresponsibility.

HB should be forced to put some players on the block for combination cash heavy deals with some prospects added until the budget is well in check. More than likely these deals will hurt Seattle's talent but it will free cash and budget room. That is a fair price - Seattle doesn't walk away with nothing but they also don't walk away scot free.

Seattle has been scot free for a couple seasons now :rolleyes: (sorry I had to)

***AndyP*** · 05-21-2011, 01:28 AM

lol, nice!

As a constructive idea to help with things, here would be my suggestion:

DJ/hoke should talk with Seattle and identify 2-3 players that need to be moved. They should identify a bottom floor for cash received/contracts taken for these players. Then they should identify a final target result of the deals (like having positive cash, X amount gone from the budget, etc)

dejota · (This post was last modified: 05-21-2011, 06:09 PM by dejota.)

HB didn't do a damn thing to help himself in this situation, that's clear. However, I think it's generally agreed Scotty got the ball rolling on this mess. Which is more important?

Because if we take action, IE help Seattle, it's because we feel this wasn't entirely his fault and despite his lack of efforts our best choice is still to Bail him out, as Andy referred to it. We're basically saying the problem here is gaffs by Scotty that lead to his payroll becoming an issue.

If we're saying this is more his responsible and the best choice is to leave it up to the Seattle GM we're saying much more than simply don't bail him out. We're also saying HB's actions weren't sufficient and he had ample time/opportunity to prevent this. If that's the case the issue isn't Seattle's (or KC's or NYY's) payroll situation(s).

mike · 05-21-2011, 07:28 PM

I take quite the offence to being lumped in with Seattle on this. I've traded what seems like millions of picks and specs to keep my team going and staying in the black. I've been responsible. I've taken the steps to make sure I always am in the black. Theres lost of specs I wish I could have gotten and or kept but I made the choice to keep my team in the black instead, something that wasn't done in Seattle. Scott got the ball rolling but HB didn't do himself any favors by extending vicmar to that huge contract. The idea of being on a coupel mil in debt and able to extend your guys is one thing, over 20mil thats another issue.

Jordan · 05-22-2011, 12:10 AM

(05-21-2011, 07:28 PM)mike Wrote: I take quite the offence to being lumped in with Seattle on this. I've traded what seems like millions of picks and specs to keep my team going and staying in the black. I've been responsible. I've taken the steps to make sure I always am in the black. Theres lost of specs I wish I could have gotten and or kept but I made the choice to keep my team in the black instead, something that wasn't done in Seattle. Scott got the ball rolling but HB didn't do himself any favors by extending vicmar to that huge contract. The idea of being on a coupel mil in debt and able to extend your guys is one thing, over 20mil thats another issue.

jumping in this convo late, haven't really been following it, but I do have to say is yes i've seen you dance above the red for many seasons, i've watched you trade away specs and players for cash just to stay out of the red.

***AndyP*** · 05-22-2011, 11:41 AM

(05-21-2011, 06:09 PM)dejota Wrote: If we're saying this is more his responsible and the best choice is to leave it up to the Seattle GM we're saying much more than simply don't bail him out. We're also saying HB's actions weren't sufficient and he had ample time/opportunity to prevent this. If that's the case the issue isn't Seattle's (or KC's or NYY's) payroll situation(s).

What, exactly, is the problem with saying this? Yes, many moves by Scotty contributed to this, but HB has also not been willing to make the hard choices to let players go to solve this problem. It's like Scotty pulled the trigger on a very slow gun and had a month to get out of the way of the bullet, but chose to stand there anyway.

dejota · (This post was last modified: 05-22-2011, 01:12 PM by dejota.)

Alright, if you go more then 10M in the red you cannot keep any non arby players and you can't offer anything above league minimum deals in FA. If you're not 10M in the red (after revenue sharing) you can appeal to the admins to avoid the mogul punishment, otherwise you reap what you sow.