The Montreal Expos

[mike]

Fan base will never change unless ur godly and win multiple world series, ala hokey or when u took Torontos budget over the top. It can bump up randomly with a new stadium too but it's not guaranteed. The new stadium would drive loyalty up to max and if that's still bringing in 125mil max then that's an issue. You can't take Tampa who on their best day will likely sit around 120mil budget and make them 140. Now if you wanted to just match their tampa's full potential budget that's fine too, but getting them to 140 and leaving everyone else behind isn't fair to those who will never be able to achieve that.

[AndyP]

I moved Cincy's. Building you a new park and you were still at 75/84. So there is still plenty of room to grow both of those and expand revenues. If you can have sustained playoff success.

But you have had both a poor stadium and you've had erratic success, so your ability to hit 140 is very attainable.

[mike]

From 2055-2070 I had one season where I won 75 games. The rest was 87 or better, I wouldn't call that erratic success. That's about as good as it's going to get. If you build a new park at excellent everything it should boost the loyalty to at least 96. Alas, I'm not going to continue to argue this point as I'm not even the one who would be in the worst boat if you make Montreal's budget 140M. That will just be one more mountain of a budget for myself and a small sprinkling of others to climb over.

[AndyP]

No offense mike, but you don't seem to understand how loyalty and fan base work.

[AndyP]

We missed Miami at 22500, so Montreal will be put at 22,500 to match the lowest city currently being used. That will put Montreal between 125-130 initially.

[mattynokes]

I hate relocation. As Andy and I have discussed, it's good to keep brand recognition for prospective GMs. However, this is the one relocation that I'd be fine with (Tampa or Florida moving to Montreal) as it's a relatively new franchise without deep history moving to a historic team.

So, I'm fine with having Montreal. However, it's a big kick in the teeth to teams who have moved to the suburbs and/or built a new stadium to achieve a better budget and to give Montreal any sort of a discount when they didn't have that same luxury. In the end, that's what this is. A move to acquire a better budget.

I also do not understand the per capita income hike. At 18,700 it's still an increase in budget for Tampa/Montreal. The region population going from 4.39M in Tampa to 7.56M in Montreal is what drives the better budget, even with that low per capita income.

As of the 2071 Opening Day Tampa ranked 24th in budget at $86.4M. Had they been in Montreal (at 18.7K per capita) they would have ranked 20th in budget at $95.3M. That right there seems like enough of an incentive to move out of Tampa. Now, if they were give the revised 22,500 per capita (which Parma, OH is still lower) it would take them to being ranked 15th in budget at $104.7M.

If we want to make a baseline per capita income, fine. But raising Montreal's is just giving Tampa/Montreal an even larger budget increase simply for the sake of doing so.

If we want to only make Tampa/Montreal pay 50%, then fine. But any team that has moved to the suburbs should been giving some percentage of their money back as they too were trying to increase their budget and weren't given this sweet of a deal.

[gmoney]

As of the 2071 Opening Day Tampa ranked 24th in budget at $86.4M. Had they been in Montreal (at 18.7K per capita) they would have ranked 20th in budget at $95.3M. That right there seems like enough of an incentive to move out of Tampa. Now, if they were give the revised 22,500 per capita (which Parma, OH is still lower) it would take them to being ranked 15th in budget at $104.7M.

I'm curious about your tests on this. I was under the impression that Montreal was about 10 million dollars a year worse in-game than St. Petersburg, so I'm wondering why there is such a difference here.

[mattynokes]

I'm curious about your tests on this. I was under the impression that Montreal was about 10 million dollars a year worse in-game than St. Petersburg, so I'm wondering why there is such a difference here.

I did it as a simple changing Hometown in League Editor to Montreal. Since we're 60+ years into the file, I'm led to believe these will look different if you tested these on a new file of your own.

I also just did it as a true Build New Stadium. This was done on FA File #3. Tampa showed an $85.9M budget prior to Spring Training. After the move with building a new, all excellent, stadium Montreal had a $98.9M budget. With the Mogul recognizing the move and new stadium build, it also increased Fan Base to 70 and Fan Loyalty to 74 (from 69 and 73).

[AndyP]

Yes, you can achieve an increase in revenue just with the move to a larger population center, but it's so small it's not worth it. Changing the per-capita income is more about fixing what Clay appears to have purposely done: make relocation cities suck compare to the existing markets.

Bumping Montreal to meet the lowest per-capita income is just undoing that bizarre, built-in component of Mogul.

As for Tampa vs. Montreal, Tampa's current budget is about 98M with a 69/75 base/loyalty. Montreal with a new stadium, staying at 18700, and a boost in base/loyalty is 98M. So yes, as it currently stands Montreal is a worse market than Tampa. That doesn't make much sense to me, so the per-capita boost to basically sanity check the game does make sense to me.

[mattynokes]

Yes, you can achieve an increase in revenue just with the move to a larger population center, but it's so small it's not worth it. Changing the per-capita income is more about fixing what Clay appears to have purposely done: make relocation cities suck compare to the existing markets.

Bumping Montreal to meet the lowest per-capita income is just undoing that bizarre, built-in component of Mogul.

As for Tampa vs. Montreal, Tampa's current budget is about 98M with a 69/75 base/loyalty. Montreal with a new stadium, staying at 18700, and a boost in base/loyalty is 98M. So yes, as it currently stands Montreal is a worse market than Tampa. That doesn't make much sense to me, so the per-capita boost to basically sanity check the game does make sense to me.

Yes, that's 98M based on the off-season budget. Budgets always increase as the season goes along. Tampa had an 85.9M budget in the off-season and expanded that to a current 94.8M. That's a 10% increase and will raise a little more by the time the season is over. A 10% increase on Montreal's starting 98M would have it over 107M by the end of the season.