Compensation pick trading

mike · 04-02-2014, 06:46 PM

I see where you're coming from but I want know why you and some others think it's taking advantage of the system. As far as I see it anything you can do to help your team why not.

***AndyP*** · 04-02-2014, 07:48 PM

"Anything to do to help your team" is incredibly poor logic to use for justifying anything. Just think for two seconds at where that leads you.

The coupon analogy is perfect. If you think a coupon is your "asset" you can trade for cash or ANYTHING you want is a total misunderstanding of what a coupon is for. Comp picks are coupons. You can trade them in for amateur players. Anything else and I tell you that your coupon is worthless.

Also (and this is no knock on rocky because he's been one of the few sober voices of reason lately) but could we take like 6 and a half seconds before we suggest something to make sure it A) Adds to the experience of playing B) Doesn't compromise league integrity C) Create much more work for minimal gain or D) Just have no friggin value at all?

I'm all about dialogue for league improving change. I am tired of suggestions for the sake of suggestions.

mike · 04-02-2014, 08:06 PM

I look at things completely differently.Comp picks are not coupons. Comp picks are essentially a favor to everyone so we can have some sort of FA. A great majority of the good FA's stem from actually getting something back in return and very rarely is it because of the team not being able to afford the player. So they should be treated a bit more worth while than a coupon. And like I said at the draft you can still work out a deal that just involves you selecting the player and then trading the player. So at the very least we should just make it fair game at the draft. I can see it being justified not allowing deals before hand as it gives you an asset that maybe you shouldn't have anyway but once draft time comes then fair game.

Also a special exemption should be made for ppl who may not be at the draft. As any of those people would be sending in a list for one 1 player when they could just easily deal the pick away for a spec.

***AndyP*** · 04-02-2014, 08:09 PM

Many would argue giving comp picks at all is already a boon to the teams at the top. Giving them further flexibility to deal them would only deepen this.

You get a coupon to encourage you to come shop for certain items that it behooves the store to sell you at a discount with the hopes that you'll do more shopping. We give a coupon so you release your players to the market in hopes you will release more and participate in it. What we can give you, at a discount that won't hurt the league, is an amatuer player.

rockybull · 04-03-2014, 07:19 AM

(04-02-2014, 07:48 PM)AndyP Wrote: "Anything to do to help your team" is incredibly poor logic to use for justifying anything. Just think for two seconds at where that leads you.

The coupon analogy is perfect. If you think a coupon is your "asset" you can trade for cash or ANYTHING you want is a total misunderstanding of what a coupon is for. Comp picks are coupons. You can trade them in for amateur players. Anything else and I tell you that your coupon is worthless.

Also (and this is no knock on rocky because he's been one of the few sober voices of reason lately) but could we take like 6 and a half seconds before we suggest something to make sure it A) Adds to the experience of playing B) Doesn't compromise league integrity C) Create much more work for minimal gain or D) Just have no friggin value at all?

I'm all about dialogue for league improving change. I am tired of suggestions for the sake of suggestions.

I got no problem with it staying like it is (which looks like it will), I just thought this was worth a suggestion. I think if you can trade 1st overall pick in a draft, you should be able to deal a comp pick, when that 1st overall pick is way more valuable to a franchise, but I get it if it's not allowed.

Like Mike said, people do talk about comp picks ahead of time and I'm sure tell the other team to select the player then after he is selected he gets traded. Honestly, maybe it should be a situation where that player can't be traded until the off-season or next draft time, so that their is no loophole and this can't be taken advantage of. Since it's getting and will get taken advantage of, I just don't see the harm in it, again just my opinion.

I don't think it creates more work for minimal gain, since the draft order already gets edited. Overall, I think this was a fair suggestion from me. I understand that this likely isn't going to change, which is fine with me. I rarely will suggest things because overall the league has good rules in place, I just thought this could get tweaked, but I'm fine with it if it stays the same.

***AndyP*** · 04-03-2014, 08:04 AM

Rocky, my comments were more generalized. I get why someone would suggest this. What I don't get are the justifications for this and some other suggestions. (Not even saying they were your justifications)

***mattynokes*** · 04-03-2014, 11:54 AM

I don't have a problem with suggestions. Sometimes spit balling can lead to a good idea. It's when we've nixed the idea and someone keeps throwing out rationale that isn't adding up that's the problem. This one just isn't happening.

mike · (This post was last modified: 04-03-2014, 12:35 PM by mike.)

Since I feel that is aimed at me, I personally feel the rational does add up. In fact I know others do as well and if it went to a league vote you'd see that the rational completely does add up. It's an opinion to think it doesn't, and again another opinion to think it should be a nixed idea. If Andy doesn't think it will do any good, well he runs the league so that's fine and I can respect his side. but Matty don't try call me out with some BS that the rational doesn't make sense when that is pure opinion, it's only a "problem" in your eyes.

To further add on it's not like I defended the idea any more after Andy's last comments at 7:09 yesterday. I made all my points clear and for better or worse if he doesn't want it in that's fine.

***AndyP*** · 04-03-2014, 01:47 PM

This is going to be long winded but I'm irritated:

On league voting: No offense to anyone, but sometimes the majority opinion is a stupid way to go because it's an amalgamation of individual, selfish reasons. There are times when that's appropriate, but for major decisions it is not. "Anything to do to help your team" could justify an admin cheating. Or a GM knowingly taking a deal where the other GM is trying to screw the league. Leagues like this only work with cooperation and some sacrifice of selfishness by all so that the thing stays stable. And it often only works when there are a few guys that the buck stops with.

Comp picks are a coupon - you can trade it in for a prospect. If you don't like that, we can certainly revoke your coupon. You want to draft that prospect and then trade them? Fine, it happens so rarely it proves the point of why locking those picks is effective.

And, yeah, I'm irritated by some laziness lately and this has NOTHING to do with Rocky...but it annoys me when people pitch suggestions with no larger context for them. You want to throw stuff at the wall? Do it in XAT for awhile first so the counterarguments are out there. People seem to think "oh...this is a good idea!" is sufficient for a suggestion. Think it out, talk it out, and plot it out long-term first. Most suggestions die in the first few posts because no one ever thinks of the ramifications. If you talked it out in XAT first you'd solve that.

The other three suggestions are evidence of this: Allowing 10 year deals is only going to make FA more absurd and potentially knock the file's finances for a loop. Release waivers accomplishes nothing but adding a third forum to do the same thing and saves zero time editing. And the other suggestion probably effects a total of 1 dude every 5 years.

More rules, more suggestions, more layers of "stuff" on top of what is already working just undermines what already works. Let's suggest things after we thoroughly vet them with each first.