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+--- Thread: Talent Issues 2022 (/showthread.php?tid=8770)
RE: Talent Issues 2022 - rockybull - 10-04-2011
(10-04-2011, 02:40 PM)mike Wrote: I wasn't saying that pitching wasn't fine as I think it is. What I'm saying is that it was a lot better back in the early days, so hitting should be better now than it was back then. As far as I specs go there are still lots of busts. Beside the point, if you think the file is fine then don't volunteer any players. It's not like he's forcing anyone to.
point is, I don't want this to be a habit. I know he isn't making anyone do this, but this is looking more and more like it's going to be a habit and I think it is a bit crazy.
Sounds to me like back in the early days it was too much talent then. You inflate the pitchers back up, then you will end up inflating the hitters even more. At this point I really don't know what you are talking about. You are for DJ knocking this down some, but yet you are saying how the pitching isn't as good now.
RE: Talent Issues 2022 - dejota - 10-04-2011
Wow you can explain, reexplain, highlight, bold and finally capitalize something and people will still ignore it. You're flat out wrong if you think my point was "bullshit". Reread everything I've said, if you still don't see what I'm saying read it again. I'll even sum it up one more time: The issue I'm trying to address is having an over inflated talent pool. There is only ONE way to address this issue and it's how I'm doing it. If you don't like how mogul handles talent (veterans crapping out, prospects development, etc.) that's a separate issue and needs a different post I'm sick of having to address them completely out of context, that's not fair.
RE: Talent Issues 2022 - GoIrish - 10-04-2011
(10-04-2011, 01:44 PM)mike Wrote: Yes, but keep in mind that were not in 2011 anymore where there was a lot better pitching in the league.
Here is the raw numbers for homers over our league. As far as 40 home runs guys go and over.
season 1 - 4
Season 2 - 5 hit 40, 1 50 and one 60
Season 3 - 3
Season 4 - 1
Season 5 - 3
Seaspn 6 - 2
Season 7 - 1
Season 8 - 3
Season 9 - 4
Season 10 - 5
Season 11 - 4
Season 12 - 1
Season 13 - 3
Alot of guys are also coming pretty close to 40 homers. Theres oto many 40 homer run (or close to it) guys and not enough superstars breaking away, and its because the game has to spread the love around too much. Also the pitching in the league was way better back in the early days of FCM. The hitting has stayed about the same. It should mean more home runs for power batters when in fact its not. Something is defently wrong with that picture.
Aside from year 2, I don't see a major difference in home runs.
I would disagree about the quality of pitching. I think the pitching in this past file is a lot better than the original league file. There were a lot of pitchers with inflated ratings in the original file that were just not really that good. On the cubs I remember having Ryan Dempster, Carlos Zambrano, Ted Lilly and Randy Wells. They all had terrible vitals but all were mid 80 to 90's ratings. Those pitchers are now gone and been replaced with prospects that have much better vitals. The stud pitchers in our original file was Tim Lincecum and King Felix. I think there are now 5-6 pitchers of their caliber in the file now.
RE: Talent Issues 2022 - dejota - 10-04-2011
Back to the post here's some of the numbers and what bugs me about them:
(39) 80s+ overall catchers (6 90+) - What league has ever had 30 above average catchers, another 9 above average back up options and 6 studs?
(100+) 80s+ MIers - Enough for us all to have 2 starters and a utility guy without having to dip into a 70s player
(34) 90s+ Starting Pitchers - 22 of them are 92+ and 9 of them are 94+ So depending on how you look at it we have anywhere between 9 and 34 aces without including 80s players with great vitals. If you look even further 1/3 of them have ERAs 4.50 or higher and half of them were above 5.00. In what baseball Universe would you have over 1 ace per team and on a 3rd of them they pitch like back end of the rotation guys?
Ofers have nearly 200 players of 80 or better and so on. The only positions not so crazy it hurts my eyes are 1B, 3B and RP. Again I think it's pretty awful but I'm not panicking and I'm not forcing this.
RE: Talent Issues 2022 - rockybull - 10-04-2011
I don't like you sitting there acting like I am a damn fool dude. You complain about guys being too good, well drop the damn farm system ratings then from 93 to 85. I am telling right now, you will end some of this shit with too much talent if you do this. I don't know why you are sitting here telling me that I am wrong when I know full well what I am talking about. You say 6 90+ catchers, well farm being at 93 IS HELPING THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is freaking ridiculous, that you can't see what I am talking about here. You are just ignoring it it sounds like, cause you can't be this damn blind.
RE: Talent Issues 2022 - GoIrish - 10-04-2011
(10-04-2011, 03:51 PM)rockybull Wrote: I don't like you sitting there acting like I am a damn fool dude. You complain about guys being too good, well drop the damn farm system ratings then from 93 to 85. I am telling right now, you will end some of this shit with too much talent if you do this. I don't know why you are sitting here telling me that I am wrong when I know full well what I am talking about. You say 6 90+ catchers, well farm being at 93 IS HELPING THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is freaking ridiculous, that you can't see what I am talking about here. You are just ignoring it it sounds like, cause you can't be this damn blind.
I think you and DJ need to take a step back from this conversation for a bit. It is getting a little heated. I think you both have valid points.
DJ's point is trying to lower the talent pool in a way that does not hurt teams randomly.
Rocky's point is to lower the farm from excellent to good and this will slow the progress of the new players.
However, I think DJ has a strong counter argument Rocky that you are either not in agreement with or are not seeing. That is if we lower the farm progress, that will give teams rebuilding a longer window on the rebuilds. It will give the vets on teams at the top a longer window to play, thus creating longer dynasties.
I hope we can continue from here without harsh words or tone, we are all working on the same goal. To make this the best league possible.
Sean
RE: Talent Issues 2022 - rockybull - 10-04-2011
(10-04-2011, 04:01 PM)GoIrish Wrote:(10-04-2011, 03:51 PM)rockybull Wrote: I don't like you sitting there acting like I am a damn fool dude. You complain about guys being too good, well drop the damn farm system ratings then from 93 to 85. I am telling right now, you will end some of this shit with too much talent if you do this. I don't know why you are sitting here telling me that I am wrong when I know full well what I am talking about. You say 6 90+ catchers, well farm being at 93 IS HELPING THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is freaking ridiculous, that you can't see what I am talking about here. You are just ignoring it it sounds like, cause you can't be this damn blind.
I think you and DJ need to take a step back from this conversation for a bit. It is getting a little heated. I think you both have valid points.
DJ's point is trying to lower the talent pool in a way that does not hurt teams randomly.
Rocky's point is to lower the farm from excellent to good and this will slow the progress of the new players.
However, I think DJ has a strong counter argument Rocky that you are either not in agreement with or are not seeing. That is if we lower the farm progress, that will give teams rebuilding a longer window on the rebuilds. It will give the vets on teams at the top a longer window to play, thus creating longer dynasties.
I hope we can continue from here without harsh words or tone, we are all working on the same goal. To make this the best league possible.
Sean
I didn't mean it as harsh as it may sound lol. I just felt like DJ was completely ignoring what I was saying. Ok 93 to 85 isn't drastic, I don't think. Took me 5 years to rebuild and become relevant. It would take what 6 years instead of say 5? Trust me, you can win with a 85 farm, and you can still develop good players, telling everyone this right now. Another point is, only ones that are volunteering to kill off guys this time is DJ and you Sean. What happens if you can't get people to volunteer guys and DJ and Sean and maybe a few people volunteer? This isn't going to do much, and may press DJ to take action and hurt the league more than he has to. Again, this is where the "panic" word comes from.
I like DJ, and like the admins here, and respect all ideas, but I just feel like enough people aren't going to want to kill off their players every 2 mogul years(2 mogul years ago I offered to kill some of my guys and 2 mogul years from now DJ will likely ask for same thing again). I feel like knocking down the farm will help overall more than what DJ is doing, and what he will continue to do. That is the main problem I have, is I think DJ will needlessly keep doing this over and over and over and over and over again. I personally don't like that.
RE: Talent Issues 2022 - mattynokes - 10-04-2011
It's true the draft and farm system settings are different from this, but it's all correlated in the end result. If you have a draft that is over saturated to what Mogul expects then you're going to leave it scrambling to random drop players to meet the talent disbursement. If prospects are making bigger and more consistent gains through development it'll leave Mogul scrambling to random drop players to meet the talent distribution.
We can do some fixes manually, but lowering the draft talent and farm system settings along with lowering these fixes will help.
RE: Talent Issues 2022 - GoIrish - 10-04-2011
(10-04-2011, 05:04 PM)rockybull Wrote:(10-04-2011, 04:01 PM)GoIrish Wrote:(10-04-2011, 03:51 PM)rockybull Wrote: I don't like you sitting there acting like I am a damn fool dude. You complain about guys being too good, well drop the damn farm system ratings then from 93 to 85. I am telling right now, you will end some of this shit with too much talent if you do this. I don't know why you are sitting here telling me that I am wrong when I know full well what I am talking about. You say 6 90+ catchers, well farm being at 93 IS HELPING THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is freaking ridiculous, that you can't see what I am talking about here. You are just ignoring it it sounds like, cause you can't be this damn blind.
I think you and DJ need to take a step back from this conversation for a bit. It is getting a little heated. I think you both have valid points.
DJ's point is trying to lower the talent pool in a way that does not hurt teams randomly.
Rocky's point is to lower the farm from excellent to good and this will slow the progress of the new players.
However, I think DJ has a strong counter argument Rocky that you are either not in agreement with or are not seeing. That is if we lower the farm progress, that will give teams rebuilding a longer window on the rebuilds. It will give the vets on teams at the top a longer window to play, thus creating longer dynasties.
I hope we can continue from here without harsh words or tone, we are all working on the same goal. To make this the best league possible.
Sean
I didn't mean it as harsh as it may sound lol. I just felt like DJ was completely ignoring what I was saying. Ok 93 to 85 isn't drastic, I don't think. Took me 5 years to rebuild and become relevant. It would take what 6 years instead of say 5? Trust me, you can win with a 85 farm, and you can still develop good players, telling everyone this right now. Another point is, only ones that are volunteering to kill off guys this time is DJ and you Sean. What happens if you can't get people to volunteer guys and DJ and Sean and maybe a few people volunteer? This isn't going to do much, and may press DJ to take action and hurt the league more than he has to. Again, this is where the "panic" word comes from.
I like DJ, and like the admins here, and respect all ideas, but I just feel like enough people aren't going to want to kill off their players every 2 mogul years(2 mogul years ago I offered to kill some of my guys and 2 mogul years from now DJ will likely ask for same thing again). I feel like knocking down the farm will help overall more than what DJ is doing, and what he will continue to do. That is the main problem I have, is I think DJ will needlessly keep doing this over and over and over and over and over again. I personally don't like that.
I can understand how you feel. I do not think Dj is ignoring but that the two of you have different opinions on how this should be done.
I have been in this league from the start and I think I have a good understanding on DJ's intentions. DJ wants to have perfection and from what he observes in the file is that we are still at a point of inflation. I don't think DJ is making any knee jerk reactions, in his first post he said "I don't think it's nearly as pressing of a need as it was two seasons ago".
He is making this post as a feeler to get volunteers because in his opinion every little bit he can get volunteered each season will help him achieve the ultimate end goal.
RE: Talent Issues 2022 - AndyP - 10-04-2011
Alright, well maybe I can help here.
Part of what is causing the problem between DJ and Rocky is that we aren't all being totally honest here. DJ - you aren't just looking to deflate talent. At least it isn't that simple. If it was, lowering the minor league talent rating would effectively help with that. In all honesty, it's probably a better method. Instead, you want to lower the talent while at the same time promoting parity. What Rocky is reacting to is the idea that CURRENT talent is going to again be punished in order to accomplish this. Meaning that teams like his are going to suffer worse than others for no other reason than his success. (Please correct me if I'm wrong Rocky)
The problem is - talent is relevant. If every player in the file as a 90, it doesn't mean they're all the same. I guarantee you I could form a team full of 70s and 80s right now and beat just about any team in the league. This black and white view that "too many 80s and 90s = bad" just doesn't make any sense to me. I'd take Adam Smith (an 82) over half the 90s in the file. The problem is, when the file decides to punish 90 players down, it does it in a way that punishes just as many legit, great 90s players as it does the ones that are inflated piles of crap. And if we keep trying to slaughter the 90s players in this fashion we're going to crush the fun of playing in a league when you often get 3-4 year career paths.
As it stands right now, we're going to continue the disproportionate push to have rookies excel which, by definition in Mogul, is going to crush veterans. You want to talk about a lack of realism? Our current prospect development is wildly unrealistic.
Frankly - I like where the talent levels are and even if they needed to go down I would wait at least a few seasons before I reacted to any changes made. And, in the future, we need to be honest that we're looking to kill talent and promote parity - which is not the same as promoting realism. Deepening the effects of what we've already done is going to further reduce realism.