Negative cash should equal negative results

[psbaseballfan27]

I think it should be tougher to do transactions. I dont care either way, but if you want teams to be more wise with cash then you have to give guidelines. I dont understand what you mean by case by case basis.

[mattynokes]

There's not much to think about here and really no need for a discussion. Mogul has it on the right track with not allowing teams to extend potentials FAs, only signing arbitration players, and not allowing trades in which it increases the team's payroll. The thing that Mogul can't view that we can is the big picture. A teams that's barely in the red and is showing the desire to trade some contracts away is a lot different than a team that's deep in the red, way over budget, and isn't even trying to deal away contracts. That's the case-by-case basis that Mogul can't see. To me it's clear that the first example team is obviously trying to make changes for the better and if they want to make a trade in which they raise their salary or re-sign someone for a few years, then as long as it makes sense it'd be fine with me. The second example team would probably be on a serious tight rope, likely on Mogul's rules, until they show some signs of financial responsibility. Lastly, in Mogul you start out with a limited supply of cash, usually around $10M. Realistically if a team was in "debt" an owner could reach into his own personal billion dollar account and write a check.

[mike]

True Matty, but Danpac sure has a point. Some teams work their ass off to stay in the black. A few mil is one thing but double digits is another. Its catch 22 really because no one wants any of hb's players because they make so much. Only guys in Perrins price range garner any interest. And Im not picking on anyone here but I think there should be something done. HB is at leats trying to better the situation so I'll give him that.

[danpac47]

:P

[Peter]

I listened to the radio show and I think releasing a top paid contract free and clear is a totally bogus idea. An example is a player like 1B Billy Butler who jps would have loved to release free and clear but he was responsible and had to package prospects to ship him out. I agree with matty that mogul has it right and only arb guys can be signed and all FA guys would be released. no extensions can be signed and only minimun contracts can be sign on free agency. If you allow a free release that is totally unfair to other teams in the league

[GoIrish]

Peter, we are talking about something that will not just be for HB but for the league has a whole. DJ brought up a tremendous idea of allowing teams in the red or teams that are over budget 1 free release. This would be a get out of jail free card for some teams. For teams that do not need the get out of jail free card, they would be given a free WB slot or cash buyout (5M).

We need to find a way to fix this mess but I also think that we need to figure a way to monitor some of this in the future as well. I think teams in the red should submit some sort of plan of how they will get out of the red to the league. That way we know they are active rather than sitting on their hands and letting the problem escalate to a much worse situation.

[rockybull]

Peter, we are talking about something that will not just be for HB but for the league has a whole. DJ brought up a tremendous idea of allowing teams in the red or teams that are over budget 1 free release. This would be a get out of jail free card for some teams. For teams that do not need the get out of jail free card, they would be given a free WB slot or cash buyout (5M).

We need to find a way to fix this mess but I also think that we need to figure a way to monitor some of this in the future as well. I think teams in the red should submit some sort of plan of how they will get out of the red to the league. That way we know they are active rather than sitting on their hands and letting the problem escalate to a much worse situation.

I offered to buy one of HB specs, well before he was even in the red, I could have sent him 10 mil or so, and I told him get back to me, he never did, he never cared. I'm sorry but that is ridiculous to allow him or others to "get out of jail free card." Outahere allows it, but ONLY for new GM's to have ONE when they take over a new team. But they don't for a GM, while they get in a mess of their own. I agree big time with Peter on this one. Teams need to take responsibility and know how not to be 24 mil in the damn red, that is atrocious. I am not for this AT ALL. This team will be in the clear when you don't let them sign any FA except for league min, and let all their FA's be released. They will during the year, trade guys for cash and get out of the damn red themselves. Make THEM get out of the red themselves, don't hold their damn hand and help them. They got themselves in this mess, let them get out by themselves too or find a responsible GM that will.

[Cdawg]

I'm gonna agree w/ Rocky and Pete here as far as it stands HB is responsible for
Vicmar:22M P/Y
Vaio:15.8M P/Y
Torres:13M P/Y(not his contract, but he traded for him, still his problem)
D'Arnaud 10.8M P/Y

and Possibly
Blackmon:9.1M P/Y

I'll give him a pass on
Perrin, Conyers, Chisenhall, Hellickson

Which still means that 68M p/y of the contracts are his own fault. Perrins and Conyers are on that boat as well. I hate to bring it all on HB but it was piss poor money management on his part the last 2 years. Shit I had to cut severally when my budget wen from 120M to 85M in 2 years and when I found myself treading water, I had to do what was best, which was start over. If you allow him to cut ties w/ anyone I want severe compensation. It's not fair to anyone that he can run his budget up as high as 180M and not deal w/ the ramifications b/c we all assume that he was left like this via Scotty(correct?!)

Now I personally offered to take on 30+M in salary from him this off season, which includes Hellickson's terrible terrible contract, the player he's been trying to dump off in Blackmon....for the compensation of Conyers(who can be seeing 20M soon and probably 25M via agent) Obviously I'd trade w/ him for Conyers but these are the type of deals he'll have to make, low ball offers for some guys in order to move their contracts so that he can at least keep the team and stay here.

If we are smart GM's we'll let him run the mariner's into the ground over the next 2-3 seasons, but as compassionate people we want to help him stay away from that and keep any future GM(b/c of this) b/c he can be close to 100M in debt if he goes on like this for 2 more seasons.

The only other team we MIGHT have to keep an eye on is the Yankees but they should have enough coming off the books over the next two years to offset Enrique and McDermid

[GoIrish]

Peter, we are talking about something that will not just be for HB but for the league has a whole. DJ brought up a tremendous idea of allowing teams in the red or teams that are over budget 1 free release. This would be a get out of jail free card for some teams. For teams that do not need the get out of jail free card, they would be given a free WB slot or cash buyout (5M).

We need to find a way to fix this mess but I also think that we need to figure a way to monitor some of this in the future as well. I think teams in the red should submit some sort of plan of how they will get out of the red to the league. That way we know they are active rather than sitting on their hands and letting the problem escalate to a much worse situation.

I offered to buy one of HB specs, well before he was even in the red, I could have sent him 10 mil or so, and I told him get back to me, he never did, he never cared. I'm sorry but that is ridiculous to allow him or others to "get out of jail free card." Outahere allows it, but ONLY for new GM's to have ONE when they take over a new team. But they don't for a GM, while they get in a mess of their own. I agree big time with Peter on this one. Teams need to take responsibility and know how not to be 24 mil in the damn red, that is atrocious. I am not for this AT ALL. This team will be in the clear when you don't let them sign any FA except for league min, and let all their FA's be released. They will during the year, trade guys for cash and get out of the damn red themselves. Make THEM get out of the red themselves, don't hold their damn hand and help them. They got themselves in this mess, let them get out by themselves too or find a responsible GM that will.

Rocky, I can understand where you are coming from. I do agree that a lot of this situation falls on the shoulders of the individuals themselves. From my perspective, I understand that people make mistakes and I don't mind finding ways to help others out, after all this is just a game.

[rockybull]

Peter, we are talking about something that will not just be for HB but for the league has a whole. DJ brought up a tremendous idea of allowing teams in the red or teams that are over budget 1 free release. This would be a get out of jail free card for some teams. For teams that do not need the get out of jail free card, they would be given a free WB slot or cash buyout (5M).

We need to find a way to fix this mess but I also think that we need to figure a way to monitor some of this in the future as well. I think teams in the red should submit some sort of plan of how they will get out of the red to the league. That way we know they are active rather than sitting on their hands and letting the problem escalate to a much worse situation.

I offered to buy one of HB specs, well before he was even in the red, I could have sent him 10 mil or so, and I told him get back to me, he never did, he never cared. I'm sorry but that is ridiculous to allow him or others to "get out of jail free card." Outahere allows it, but ONLY for new GM's to have ONE when they take over a new team. But they don't for a GM, while they get in a mess of their own. I agree big time with Peter on this one. Teams need to take responsibility and know how not to be 24 mil in the damn red, that is atrocious. I am not for this AT ALL. This team will be in the clear when you don't let them sign any FA except for league min, and let all their FA's be released. They will during the year, trade guys for cash and get out of the damn red themselves. Make THEM get out of the red themselves, don't hold their damn hand and help them. They got themselves in this mess, let them get out by themselves too or find a responsible GM that will.

Rocky, I can understand where you are coming from. I do agree that a lot of this situation falls on the shoulders of the individuals themselves. From my perspective, I understand that people make mistakes and I don't mind finding ways to help others out, after all this is just a game.

your right, this is just a game, which I like for. I understand you wanna help them out, but it just isn't fair for others that have payed attention to their budgets and know what to do. There is no excuse for HB not to at least attempt to get back to me about me buying one of his specs, he never attempted too, and that was before he got in the red, I even told him dude you gonna be getting in the red soon, he just acted like he didn't care. That is just my take on this. He will get out of the red soon enough, if it hurts him in offseason, and he has to trade guys, then so be it. I ask that we let HB get out of the red himself, cause it is manageable even if he is 30 mil in red at end of season.