02-05-2012, 03:59 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2012, 02:48 PM by mattynokes.)
A little discussion in the chatbox has prompted a suggestion. It doesn't appear there's much backing to why the guidelines are what they are. Some seem ridiculously expensive and others seem a little cheap. In the end I think it comes down to perceived value. Maybe some just don't consider stadium upgrades, but I'm sure I, like others, would consider these more often if they were priced more cost-effective.
I think before we look at what the upgrades should cost we should look at what the average amount of time of return on investment should be and what the in-game costs would be for the upgrades if building a new stadium. Also a realistic sense of what the effort would truly be to make this change happen in real life.
Structure/Surface Upgrades
When upgrading to a convertible roof from an open stadium it cost about $140M on the stadium creation. Really I don't see this effecting anything, so it's probably a worthless upgrade to have.
Installing turf will effect play and in-game effects the price $3M.
Seating Upgrades
These seem to have varying price effects with the different levels you change (i.e. going from Average to Good is different than going from Poor to Fair). Obviously adding seats can be done. The question is, what's a fair price?
Poor to Fair: About $35M
Fair to Avg: About $35M
Avg to Good: About $75M
Good to Excellent: About $80M
Convenience - This has to do with location, ease of getting to the ballpark, and parking. Personally I don't think it's realistic to upgrade since you really can't get convenience unless you build a new road off the highway for fans to access.
Comfort - Park enjoyment, history, quality of concessions, and how inviting is the park. It's hard to put a price on it, but it's definitely something that could easily be upgraded.
Sight Lines - Simply, how good is the view? Is there a pole in your way blocking your view? This is something that realistically could be fixed, but would likely be costly with construction.
Playing Field Upgrades
There is no cost in-game when changing these things. Note that a team could benefit by an upgrade or downgrade as going either direction on these effect Stadium Effects.
Infield Quality - Probably as simple as buying new dirt/clay.
Infield Grass - Probably the most simple change. Just tell your grounds crew to cut the grass shorter/higher.
Visibility - Has to do with the backdrop the batter sees. So putting up a sign in center or black screen could effect this. Possibly a little more costly than the first two.
Foul Grounds - This is something I see almost tied in with Outfield Dimensions. I would definitely changing the foul grounds should be more costly than the above items.
Outfield Dimensions
As far as I know, most outfield walls can come down/apart fairly easy, so moving them likely wouldn't be a problem. The problem is where the seats are. You could probably get away with cutting down the bullpen space in certain areas very easily, but moving concrete seating would be costly.
----------
PRICING SUGGESTIONS
Installing Turf/Grass - I can't find any articles, but I believe I remember hearing Ohio State's artificial infield cost a few million. With the in-game cost being about $3M, I think a cost between $3M and $5M would be appropriate.
Seating Upgrades
I would like to see three different tiers of pricing for Convenience, Comfort, and Sight Lines. I think all three have varying levels of difficulty to improve when considering realism factors. It's definitely cheaper than an in-game stadium cost effect, but I think they need to remain a decent price so people may actually buy them.
Convenience
Poor to Fair: $20M
Fair to Avg: $20M
Avg to Good: $30M
Good to Excellent: $30M
Comfort
Poor to Fair: $10M
Fair to Avg: $10M
Avg to Good: $20M
Good to Excellent: $20M
Sight Lines
Poor to Fair: $15M
Fair to Avg: $15M
Avg to Good: $25M
Good to Excellent: $25M
Seating Costs
Currently it would take over 14 seasons to get your money back at league average tickets prices for being 100 seats. Now getting extra fans to your park should create more concession revenue, but that still seems way too long to get a return on your investment. As Corey put it, "To sink millions into an upgrade that won't gain any value for 12-14 years, teams are better off spending money elsewhere.
I think a return on the investment should come after 5 seasons. That would make $1M equal to 110 seats.
Playing Field Upgrades
A team really doesn't get an advantage with these so it's purely speculation and realism.
Infield Quality - $3M
Infield Grass - $3M
Visibility - $5M
Foul Grounds - $7M
Outfield Dimensions
I think $20M is way too much. I think the team wanting to make the change should post their changes, reasoning, and suggested cost with it being up for review based on the individual situation. Minor changes should cost considerably less than major changes.
Old Guidelines Wrote:Infield Quality/Grass/Visibility/Foul Ground: 5M per upgrade
Installing Convertible Top: 100M
Install Natural Grass: 10M
Upgrade Convenience/Comfort/Sight Lines: 15M per upgrade.
Seats: 2.5 mil per 100
Adjust Dimensions (Subject to Admin Veto): 20M
Note: On adjusting dimensions you may not change certain aspects such as the Green Monster or the Crawford Boxes/Center Field in Minute Maid. You also may not put in ridiculous dimensions (600 or 250 foot walls for example).
I think before we look at what the upgrades should cost we should look at what the average amount of time of return on investment should be and what the in-game costs would be for the upgrades if building a new stadium. Also a realistic sense of what the effort would truly be to make this change happen in real life.
Structure/Surface Upgrades
When upgrading to a convertible roof from an open stadium it cost about $140M on the stadium creation. Really I don't see this effecting anything, so it's probably a worthless upgrade to have.
Installing turf will effect play and in-game effects the price $3M.
Seating Upgrades
These seem to have varying price effects with the different levels you change (i.e. going from Average to Good is different than going from Poor to Fair). Obviously adding seats can be done. The question is, what's a fair price?
Poor to Fair: About $35M
Fair to Avg: About $35M
Avg to Good: About $75M
Good to Excellent: About $80M
Convenience - This has to do with location, ease of getting to the ballpark, and parking. Personally I don't think it's realistic to upgrade since you really can't get convenience unless you build a new road off the highway for fans to access.
Comfort - Park enjoyment, history, quality of concessions, and how inviting is the park. It's hard to put a price on it, but it's definitely something that could easily be upgraded.
Sight Lines - Simply, how good is the view? Is there a pole in your way blocking your view? This is something that realistically could be fixed, but would likely be costly with construction.
Playing Field Upgrades
There is no cost in-game when changing these things. Note that a team could benefit by an upgrade or downgrade as going either direction on these effect Stadium Effects.
Infield Quality - Probably as simple as buying new dirt/clay.
Infield Grass - Probably the most simple change. Just tell your grounds crew to cut the grass shorter/higher.
Visibility - Has to do with the backdrop the batter sees. So putting up a sign in center or black screen could effect this. Possibly a little more costly than the first two.
Foul Grounds - This is something I see almost tied in with Outfield Dimensions. I would definitely changing the foul grounds should be more costly than the above items.
Outfield Dimensions
As far as I know, most outfield walls can come down/apart fairly easy, so moving them likely wouldn't be a problem. The problem is where the seats are. You could probably get away with cutting down the bullpen space in certain areas very easily, but moving concrete seating would be costly.
----------
PRICING SUGGESTIONS
Installing Turf/Grass - I can't find any articles, but I believe I remember hearing Ohio State's artificial infield cost a few million. With the in-game cost being about $3M, I think a cost between $3M and $5M would be appropriate.
Seating Upgrades
I would like to see three different tiers of pricing for Convenience, Comfort, and Sight Lines. I think all three have varying levels of difficulty to improve when considering realism factors. It's definitely cheaper than an in-game stadium cost effect, but I think they need to remain a decent price so people may actually buy them.
Convenience
Poor to Fair: $20M
Fair to Avg: $20M
Avg to Good: $30M
Good to Excellent: $30M
Comfort
Poor to Fair: $10M
Fair to Avg: $10M
Avg to Good: $20M
Good to Excellent: $20M
Sight Lines
Poor to Fair: $15M
Fair to Avg: $15M
Avg to Good: $25M
Good to Excellent: $25M
Seating Costs
Currently it would take over 14 seasons to get your money back at league average tickets prices for being 100 seats. Now getting extra fans to your park should create more concession revenue, but that still seems way too long to get a return on your investment. As Corey put it, "To sink millions into an upgrade that won't gain any value for 12-14 years, teams are better off spending money elsewhere.
I think a return on the investment should come after 5 seasons. That would make $1M equal to 110 seats.
Playing Field Upgrades
A team really doesn't get an advantage with these so it's purely speculation and realism.
Infield Quality - $3M
Infield Grass - $3M
Visibility - $5M
Foul Grounds - $7M
Outfield Dimensions
I think $20M is way too much. I think the team wanting to make the change should post their changes, reasoning, and suggested cost with it being up for review based on the individual situation. Minor changes should cost considerably less than major changes.
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