Braves and Rays trade

rockybull · 01-29-2011, 08:10 PM

Braves gets:
2B Larry Salm 17 66/98 $39,000 arb '19
3B Ric Venet 16 54/90 $15,600 arb '19
RP Manuel Maytorena 48/84 $15,600 arb '19
CF Nick Cheek 73/78 $15,600 arb '19
1B Dave Townsend 75/78 $15,600 arb '19

Rays gets:
SP Brian Matusz 29 90 overall $11 million FA '20
CF Kentrail Davis 27 93 overall $9 million arb '16

I accept. I get 3 real good lookin specs that I think I can end up developing in Salm, Venet and Maytorena. I already have Nino Perez at SS, and now Salm at 2B and hopefully Venet can develop to be my 3B, thats an enticing young INF right there. Cheek and Townsend are guys that could be cheap solid bench type bats for me in future. Matusz is pretty good, but im not overly high on this guy, I think its better to sell high sooner rather than later. I like Davis, but he will be a FA next year or year after, prolly next year, and I just honestly don't care to extend this guy, his defensive vitals scream out corner OF only, I don't like his defense in CF. I already dealt Kimbrel, and im planning to deal others so no reason keeping these two around when I have a shot at getting high end specs. I would be stunned if Salm and Venet didn't develop thats how much i like them.

EPIC xX Fate Xx · 01-29-2011, 08:18 PM

I accept. Salm is probally one of the best spects in the league. And at only 17 hes gonna be stunning down the line. Venet is the same thing looks to be the same and hes even a year younger. Both who plays premier postions. Matusz is gonna be 30 before sim 1. He makes a shit load forever, and his vitals dont really match up to his rating. Davis looks good, but hes gonna cost a butt load since he is a up and coming free agent.. I feel like I give up enough in the deal and hope that Matusz and Davis can help my team for the near future..

***AndyP*** · 01-29-2011, 09:41 PM

rocky, being new I'm examining this move a little bit more closely than most. You're giving up two productive 90+ players for a package with only two 90 peaks and one 80s peak. My personal opinion of Salm and Venet is very, very low. Can you clarify what it is in your evaluations you liked?

My vote will hold to hear more on this.

***Atlbravesfan27*** · 01-30-2011, 12:35 AM

I'll approve.. Matusz, while has had decent seasons in the past, is highly overrated in my opinion.. Davis is solid with the bat, but, again, still overrated for what he actually is/does...not to mention his defense is terrible... approve

***hokeyrules*** · 01-30-2011, 01:07 AM

I would like to hear the reasoning like Andy.

rockybull · 01-30-2011, 01:07 AM

(01-29-2011, 09:41 PM)AndyP Wrote: rocky, being new I'm examining this move a little bit more closely than most. You're giving up two productive 90+ players for a package with only two 90 peaks and one 80s peak. My personal opinion of Salm and Venet is very, very low. Can you clarify what it is in your evaluations you liked?

My vote will hold to hear more on this.

alright let me explain this to you real easy. Yes im new here, but not new to mogul, I think only two people here that have prolly heard of me is hokey and stang. stang knows me pretty damn good. I'm easily one of the best mogul GM's out there, im def a top GM when it comes with drafting and development. First off mogul 2011 is no sure thing for nobody, but Salm has a shot to be really freakin good, so does Velet, so good that when they develop there is a chance its gonna look like a damn rape job that I did on this GM in this deal. When it's all said and done every GM here will remember who I am, and know for sure what I am and not good at in mogul lol.

Let me break down this trade as slowly and easily as I can so you and others can keep up. Matusz in my opinion is 84 overall type player with his vitals, I just don't like the guy and don't like the money and years he is under contract for. I wanna get this guy gone and max his value as much as possible, and I believe I did this here. Davis is a fine bat, he really is, but his defense is damn awful for a CF, he is relegated as a corner OF, that is plain and simple, and he will I guess be a FA in the next offseason or year after at most, I don't wanna resign this stick and pay him prolly $13+ mil a year for whatever many years when im gonna rebuild this team into greatness. People say get max value, well hell ya get max value, but this is max value.

You see two 90+ players and go wow you only get a 98 peak and 90 peak player with 2 scrubs and a 84 peak guy, what are you doin rocky? you crazy? It's simple, real simple here that Salm with his age, and vitals, he has a shot at being one of the top 2B in the game in future, and Venet with his age and vitals he has a shot at being good too, he has weak contact, but hey if he is developed right he has a shot to get 75+ contact easily, both players have shots at being MLB future starting players. Maytorena is a guy with a low peak now, relievers I will say can sometimes be hard to read, but at his age and vitals, he at least has a shot at being a valuable future reliever, whether that is true or not is to be determined. Nobody can say oh yes I got completely raped, or oh man I destroyed this GM in this trade. Put it like this, could I have gotten more? maybe, but maybe not. I think two 90's and a mid 80's spec for these guys is max value, I believe. I can't guarantee that 6 years down the road that this deal will be great for me, because nobody can guarantee anything in mogul, but I believe I will come out very good in this deal. But I will say this though, I rarely get beat in trades when it is all said and done.

Playing mogul, I don't like getting way too much for players most of the time, unless I feel they are very special, I don't feel like Davis or Matusz are special here, and I beleive I got full value for guys that I want to get rid of and have no more use for. This is how I trade though, I have a certain way I go about dealing. I don't just give guys away, but I feel that I have a shot at getting 1 superstar and 1 real good player and a guy in the RP that has a shot at being good in this deal. Thats all you ever ask for in a trade. Now that I totally dissed Matusz and Davis, I would be amazed if I got half this from teams if this is vetoed but whatever lol. Hopefully I didn't sound too big of a prick here, just tried to explain this deal as simple as possible lol.

***jps93*** · 01-30-2011, 01:38 AM

I approve. I'm not one to keep new GM's in Time Out. This deal isn't phenomenal but it's not bad enough to veto. Mastuz is overvalued and Davis may be as well.

Approve

***AndyP*** · 01-30-2011, 01:52 AM

What I was looking for was insight into what you think is strong in their vitals. I see two players who can't play defense and have no tools that stand out as highly project-able. Condescending about simplicity and slowing it down is unnecessary. My slant is not that the players being given are elite....but that they're worth well more than empty overall/peak ratios.

I'll think about this some more and vote tomorrow.

rockybull · 01-30-2011, 02:21 AM

(01-30-2011, 01:52 AM)AndyP Wrote: What I was looking for was insight into what you think is strong in their vitals. I see two players who can't play defense and have no tools that stand out as highly project-able. Condescending about simplicity and slowing it down is unnecessary. My slant is not that the players being given are elite....but that they're worth well more than empty overall/peak ratios.

I'll think about this some more and vote tomorrow.

see thats the thing about it is their ages. They have weak defensive vitals because they are insanely young. I have been around long enough to see vitals go up and improve lots more, now will they win gold gloves? prolly not, but they have a shot at being damn good. Salm will have a good arm for a 2B, along with pretty good fielding, I think if developed right he should have around 75-80 range which is pretty good for a second baseman especially with arm and fielding likely a good bit higher. Venet is gonna have crazy fielding, but at such a young age, he will develop an arm and range, arm has a shot at 85+, and range around 75-85 somewhere in that range, which isn't bad along with a strong bat. If both guys were 20 I would be like, ya they can't play defense, but I been around long enough to realize if developed right, they will develop better defense.

Salm may not have any "standout" tools, but he is very young, and with his vitals, he looks like a complete offensive threat, along with much improved defense. Venet is insanely young too, and other than contact he looks to be a force in the middle of a lineup with improved defensive vitals as he matures. I still think contact has a shot at being pretty good though. That RP is a guy that could be wildcard in this entire trade, he is young enough with those vitals to really make me look good and smart in a few years. Take all the time you want, but like I said very rarely do I get beat in trades, you can ask Stang this, cause he has been in two leagues with me, he knows the damage I can do lol.

***AndyP*** · 01-30-2011, 02:28 AM

I'll approve, not because I think this deal is a good one (I think Venet and Salm will look a lot like Lajud - defensive vitals usually only increase dramatically in guys that have pre-existing tools in that area. These two were born to play DH), but because the other deals done by Atlanta represent some knowledge.